48 replies to this topic

[Bouzy210]

I will be responding to this in a couple of days and explain how global warming is real. A few comments global warming is reversable. (What reliable source do you have that says scientists says it isn't) Reliable sources are what its all about people. Its like a river. It can get very polluted and kill things, but with enough time and help cleaning it up it can get better. Those are just a few of my inital thoughts but I will be consulting my uncle who is like a big science profesor and explain why its real.

Edited by Bouzy210, 06 January 2008 - 11:55 PM.

[Bouzy210]

Somehow Donna managed to half-convince me that it wasn't real, and was all a politics game - then some other people started to think the same thing around me... so I'm half and half not sure.

Isn't it weird this topic came up after not long talking about global warming lol

My opinions are somewhat mixed but still feel it's the biggest hoax of the century, where I'm living now I've spoken to people that have lived here all their lives (70 years and more) and they all say the same thing the winters are a lot warmer than what they used to be. Well I dunno, peoples memories are not a reliable source.

Example of where I am for today where it's 1C

Average Maximum Temperature -5.8°C
Average Minimum Temperature -13.7°C
Highest Temperature (1943-2007) 6.3°C 2001
Lowest Temperature (1943-2007) -40.6°C 1950

I have the Planet Earth Series and on that they show a polar bear swimming in search of food and all the ice melting rapidly and eventually he finds some land and tries to kill a walrus to survive in turn being injured by a walrus and the bear too weak eventually lays down and dies so your lead to believe as it's still very much alive but they never show it dead. They say that it needs ice cover to get out to sea to catch managable prey, that's not global warming and polar bears are known to attack a walrus herd for food they've been doing that for yrs long before global warming was even invented lol.

It's survival not global warming. I'm no expert or scientist but it makes me annoyed when they brainwash us with info based on one bear.

And then that Al Gore fellow that states things that have never been proven so the kids in schools get brainwashed.

I dunno as I say I have mixed feelings, and we all know our animal kingdom is slowly going, it's mankind doing all the damage. Great example are garbage bears being killed but we fail to see we're invading their hunting grounds by building homes on their land and in turn we kill them because they come onto our land it just don't make sense to me.

Anyways I'll stop rambling as I dunno what I'm on about anyways.

Use at your own risk if you get bad marks or expelled I cannot be held responsible

I don't mean to be a nuisance quoting your whole post, but I would like to put in my 2 cents in response...

Donna, I have followed the stories of how you have convinced people global warming isn't real and have taken many things into account that you have said. Many points you bring up make sense, and I have looked into them. Some I could disprove with sound scientific evidence (Achieved through many sources including professors at our local college), but others I could not... Until I saw an Inconvenient Truth. Please take the time to see to the movie because it really does prove with sound scientific evidence that global warming is real... It is not a liberal or republican issue. It's an issue for everyone. Because I took the time to truly listen to your opinions I would like you to do the same for me and check out the movie.

Donna.. I am calling you out, because I guarantee if you see the movie it will disprove any evidence you have saying global warming isn't real... It explains many things about natural warming and cooling cycles and disproves information like global warming is irreversible. I have done my research (Asking college professors with PhD's in science not to mention reading many books.) with global warming. If you see the movie and then can still disprove global warming with facts or ideas that don't just ignore the sound evidence of the scientific community, then I will believe you. (Also you can find any information you want on the internet, so to find a couple of websites with unreliable information and ignore the scientific community is just ignorant)... show me good reliable sources people..


Some more of my ideas…

Myth:

Now, that may be quite warm to a polar bear, but it has taken 40 years to gain 0.75 C - So if my calculations are right, that means it will take 400 Years to get to 7.5 C heat rise... Again, im not the brightest of sparks when it comes to geography etc. but will that actually effect the ice caps?

… Have you heard of exponential equations and graphs? You probably used them in school in Algebra 2. Most things that occur in nature happen in the form of exponential equations, for example cell growth. It looks like this…




.



Exponential equations have to do exponential growth or decay in this case growth. The work as follows: A growth occurs steadily gaining values on the y axis as x or time increases. However at a certain point you can see that, on the right-hand side of the x-axis, the graph shoots up through the roof. This is because of the doubling behavior of exponential equations. Once the functions starts visibly growing, it keeps on doubling, so it gets very large, very fast. Thus, your calculations are flat out wrong.

… Actually just about all of the things said about cycles and other reasons global warming is fake are myths, but I really don't have time to disprove all of them like I did above. And if you have any response to this post hopefully it will include real sources of information or acual math or science like I did above instead of showing random graphs or information you found on the internet.


P.S. I think your argument losses all value when you say you found your information from wiki. For that matter anywhere on the internet. Read some books or origonal documents people.

[Jeepinator]

Bouzy you sure wrote a lot, but said very little.

Everybody knows about exponential growth. It's a simple concept. I doubt, however, that there is any evidence to suggest the Earth's temperature is growing exponentially. Where are your sources?

Your closing comment is also a bit odd. You apparently got your information second hand and from a movie with questionable credibility. Kind of eliminates your credibility too, eh?

Edited by Jeepinator, 10 June 2008 - 12:13 AM.

[Bouzy210]

Where are yours? Where is your proof that there was a global ice age in the 1800s? (You based your info off of a painting that is unrealistic anyways.) Do people stand up in boats over freezing rivers? No.. Do paintors sometimes exagerate there images.. yes.. I have said I have read many scientific books and articles even talked to professors. I could write a bibliography and footnotes however I really don't have the time. I can at least vouch that I have talked to people and read books. Where is your information from? (All from one or two internet sites?) Apparently he didn't know about exponential equations otherwise he would have used them, because it's common knowledge that populations is growing exponentially (which mean that people pollute so pollution would be doing the same) ... (Everyone is responsible for a certain amount of CO2 emissions, pollution, and trash build up. It's actually a surprising amount and in the tons yearly for 1 person). Calculate your emissions... http://www.epa.gov/c...calculator.html

P.S. I didn't realize the academy gave best documentary awards to documentaries with incredibly shaky information and a clearly left wing crazy liberal as a director.. my bad.

Edited by Bouzy210, 10 June 2008 - 11:37 AM.

[Jeepinator]

Where are yours? Where is your proof that there was a global ice age in the 1800s? (You based your info off of a painting that is unrealistic anyways.) Do people stand up in boats over freezing rivers? No.. Do paintors sometimes exagerate there images.. yes.. I have said I have read many scientific books and articles even talked to professors. I could write a bibliography and footnotes however I really don't have the time. I can at least vouch that I have talked to people and read books. Where is your information from? (All from one or two internet sites?) Apparently he didn't know about exponential equations otherwise he would have used them, because it's common knowledge that populations is growing exponentially (which mean that people pollute so pollution would be doing the same) ... (Everyone is responsible for a certain amount of CO2 emissions, pollution, and trash build up. It's actually a surprising amount and in the tons yearly for 1 person). Calculate your emissions... http://www.epa.gov/c...calculator.html

P.S. I didn't realize the academy gave best documentary awards to documentaries with incredibly shaky information and a clearly left wing crazy liberal as a director.. my bad.

I am sorry that you have never heard of the Little Ice Age. I assumed it was something on which I didn't need to cite some sources. It is a pretty well known time period. In fact, the History Channel had a pretty good show about it.

Vouching for yourself just doesn't work.

Since when was the Academy a judicial body for the credibility of documentaries? Also, we all know Al Gore is a gimp and hypocrite. His house here in Tennessee uses something like 20 times the energy of an average person's home. And when he came here he brought his entire motorcade with him. Good one Al.

EDIT: Asking for a source for "The Little Ice Age" is like asking me to provide a source to prove D-Day was June 6, 1944 or that George Bush is currently president.

Edited by Jeepinator, 18 June 2008 - 06:14 PM.

[Donna]

I don't mean to be a nuisance quoting your whole post, but I would like to put in my 2 cents in response...

Donna, I have followed the stories of how you have convinced people global warming isn't real and have taken many things into account that you have said. Many points you bring up make sense, and I have looked into them. Some I could disprove with sound scientific evidence (Achieved through many sources including professors at our local college), but others I could not... Until I saw an Inconvenient Truth. Please take the time to see to the movie because it really does prove with sound scientific evidence that global warming is real... It is not a liberal or republican issue. It's an issue for everyone. Because I took the time to truly listen to your opinions I would like you to do the same for me and check out the movie.

Donna.. I am calling you out, because I guarantee if you see the movie it will disprove any evidence you have saying global warming isn't real... It explains many things about natural warming and cooling cycles and disproves information like global warming is irreversible. I have done my research (Asking college professors with PhD's in science not to mention reading many books.) with global warming. If you see the movie and then can still disprove global warming with facts or ideas that don't just ignore the sound evidence of the scientific community, then I will believe you. (Also you can find any information you want on the internet, so to find a couple of websites with unreliable information and ignore the scientific community is just ignorant)... show me good reliable sources people..


Some more of my ideas…

Myth:

Now, that may be quite warm to a polar bear, but it has taken 40 years to gain 0.75 C - So if my calculations are right, that means it will take 400 Years to get to 7.5 C heat rise... Again, im not the brightest of sparks when it comes to geography etc. but will that actually effect the ice caps?

… Have you heard of exponential equations and graphs? You probably used them in school in Algebra 2. Most things that occur in nature happen in the form of exponential equations, for example cell growth. It looks like this…




.



Exponential equations have to do exponential growth or decay in this case growth. The work as follows: A growth occurs steadily gaining values on the y axis as x or time increases. However at a certain point you can see that, on the right-hand side of the x-axis, the graph shoots up through the roof. This is because of the doubling behavior of exponential equations. Once the functions starts visibly growing, it keeps on doubling, so it gets very large, very fast. Thus, your calculations are flat out wrong.

… Actually just about all of the things said about cycles and other reasons global warming is fake are myths, but I really don't have time to disprove all of them like I did above. And if you have any response to this post hopefully it will include real sources of information or acual math or science like I did above instead of showing random graphs or information you found on the internet.


P.S. I think your argument losses all value when you say you found your information from wiki. For that matter anywhere on the internet. Read some books or origonal documents people.

Inconvenient Truth is a crockpot of and highly agree with Jeepinator and his comments

also your other comment made

Do people stand up in boats over freezing rivers? No..

read again what you wrote, they do that all the time here in winter where I live.

[RoarLion]

It is diffently a lie. There is much more evidence that it is cooling not warming. Just a lie from Al to support his new brand of communism.


John Coleman says the following:

You may want to give credit where credit is due to Al Gore and his global warming campaign the next time you fill your car with gasoline, because there is a direct connection between Global Warming and four dollar a gallon gas. It is shocking, but true, to learn that the entire Global Warming frenzy is based on the environmentalist’s attack on fossil fuels, particularly gasoline. All this big time science, international meetings, thick research papers, dire threats for the future; all of it, comes down to their claim that the carbon dioxide in the exhaust from your car and in the smoke stacks from our power plants is destroying the climate of planet Earth.

http://www.kusi.com/...r/19842304.html

[Jeepinator]

This article conveniently appeared on Digg for me today:

http://tennesseepoli...?article_id=764

NASHVILLE - In the year since Al Gore took steps to make his home more energy-efficient, the former Vice President’s home energy use surged more than 10%, according to the Tennessee Center for Policy Research.

“A man’s commitment to his beliefs is best measured by what he does behind the closed doors of his own home,” said Drew Johnson, President of the Tennessee Center for Policy Research. “Al Gore is a hypocrite and a fraud when it comes to his commitment to the environment, judging by his home energy consumption.”

In the past year, Gore’s home burned through 213,210 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, enough to power 232 average American households for a month.

In February 2007, An Inconvenient Truth, a film based on a climate change speech developed by Gore, won an Academy Award for best documentary feature. The next day, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research uncovered that Gore’s Nashville home guzzled 20 times more electricity than the average American household.

After the Tennessee Center for Policy Research exposed Gore’s massive home energy use, the former Vice President scurried to make his home more energy-efficient. Despite adding solar panels, installing a geothermal system, replacing existing light bulbs with more efficient models, and overhauling the home’s windows and ductwork, Gore now consumes more electricity than before the “green” overhaul.

Since taking steps to make his home more environmentally-friendly last June, Gore devours an average of 17,768 kWh per month –1,638 kWh more energy per month than before the renovations – at a cost of $16,533. By comparison, the average American household consumes 11,040 kWh in an entire year, according to the Energy Information Administration.

In the wake of becoming the most well-known global warming alarmist, Gore won an Oscar, a Grammy and the Nobel Peace Prize. In addition, Gore saw his personal wealth increase by an estimated $100 million thanks largely to speaking fees and investments related to global warming hysteria.

“Actions speak louder than words, and Gore’s actions prove that he views climate change not as a serious problem, but as a money-making opportunity,” Johnson said. “Gore is exploiting the public’s concern about the environment to line his pockets and enhance his profile.”

The Tennessee Center for Policy Research, a Nashville-based free market think tank and watchdog organization, obtained information about Gore’s home energy use through a public records request to the Nashville Electric Service.

It says he uses enough in a year to power 232 average homes for a month. That means he is using 19.3 times the amount of power that an average home uses.

Edited by Jeepinator, 18 June 2008 - 08:47 PM.

[Faken]

Actually I don't think there's much doubt global warming is real... Just look at the polar icecaps that are vanishing. I think the debate is more along the lines of is the fact the humans are causing it bogus are not. From what I read, THAT is the real question.. Global warming is real, the debate here should be is it a natural global phenomenon or is it being caused by humans. Al Gore is trying to push that it's our fault and global warming is being marketed that way, but many feel it's just a natural cycle of the planet and that it would happen with or without humans.

But on the other side of the fence, is whether or not humans are causing global warming a reason for inactivity? Should firemen only put out fires caused by humans?

Dan

[Donna]

Actually I don't think there's much doubt global warming is real... Just look at the polar icecaps that are vanishing. I think the debate is more along the lines of is the fact the humans are causing it bogus are not. From what I read, THAT is the real question.. Global warming is real, the debate here should be is it a natural global phenomenon or is it being caused by humans. Al Gore is trying to push that it's our fault and global warming is being marketed that way, but many feel it's just a natural cycle of the planet and that it would happen with or without humans.

But on the other side of the fence, is whether or not humans are causing global warming a reason for inactivity? Should firemen only put out fires caused by humans?

Dan

I have doubts about the polar ice caps melting, just recently been through the Rocky Mountains and we stopped several times for photo's, a conversation was started about them melting and an elderly lady (in her 80's) was telling us they're not melting they're moving and they had the same amount of snow they had 60yrs ago and where we was standing used to be the river which is now a highway (as we all know rivers move and banks collapse), we also saw this at Athabasca Falls where used to be the main Falls that's now completely moved by Mother Nature doing what she does best.

You can't screw with this lady (Mother Nature) she's sitting there laughing at us all. We build houses in the middle of forests then scream when they burn down, cry when we see our homes washed into rivers/oceans but we're the first to scream if a bear/cougar/wolf comes onto our properties but we took their land in the first place. Little off topic but just alone where I live they have killed 11 cougars so far this year, that came into town because we had so much snow on the mountains they had little or no food, they killed no one or harmed nothing but suffer death for walking too close. ...................I know nothing to do with global warming but that's where it all starts, with killing and greed. We take and take and take then we have no one to blame except ourselves and we call it GLOBAL WARMING when in reality it should be GLOBAL WARNING.

Fires in the forest/bush should be left to burn out by themselves, some plants cannot regenerate without them (Australian Bush is a great example of that) where as others need man to help them put them out when stupid humans go build a home right in the middle of a forest etc.

We're destroying this planet so rapidly now that it will never recover to what it should be, but us greedy humans fail to see beyond.

[Faken]

Actually I don't think there's much doubt global warming is real... Just look at the polar icecaps that are vanishing. I think the debate is more along the lines of is the fact the humans are causing it bogus are not. From what I read, THAT is the real question.. Global warming is real, the debate here should be is it a natural global phenomenon or is it being caused by humans. Al Gore is trying to push that it's our fault and global warming is being marketed that way, but many feel it's just a natural cycle of the planet and that it would happen with or without humans.

But on the other side of the fence, is whether or not humans are causing global warming a reason for inactivity? Should firemen only put out fires caused by humans?

Dan

I have doubts about the polar ice caps melting, just recently been through the Rocky Mountains and we stopped several times for photo's, a conversation was started about them melting and an elderly lady (in her 80's) was telling us they're not melting they're moving and they had the same amount of snow they had 60yrs ago and where we was standing used to be the river which is now a highway (as we all know rivers move and banks collapse), we also saw this at Athabasca Falls where used to be the main Falls that's now completely moved by Mother Nature doing what she does best.

You can't screw with this lady (Mother Nature) she's sitting there laughing at us all. We build houses in the middle of forests then scream when they burn down, cry when we see our homes washed into rivers/oceans but we're the first to scream if a bear/cougar/wolf comes onto our properties but we took their land in the first place. Little off topic but just alone where I live they have killed 11 cougars so far this year, that came into town because we had so much snow on the mountains they had little or no food, they killed no one or harmed nothing but suffer death for walking too close. ...................I know nothing to do with global warming but that's where it all starts, with killing and greed. We take and take and take then we have no one to blame except ourselves and we call it GLOBAL WARMING when in reality it should be GLOBAL WARNING.

Fires in the forest/bush should be left to burn out by themselves, some plants cannot regenerate without them (Australian Bush is a great example of that) where as others need man to help them put them out when stupid humans go build a home right in the middle of a forest etc.

We're destroying this planet so rapidly now that it will never recover to what it should be, but us greedy humans fail to see beyond.

Oh no, they're definitely melting... Polar bear habitat is vanishing because not enough water is staying frozen and the massive canadian ice shelves are melting and breaking apart (which is causing them to move like you mentioned).

And I think humans should definitely put out forest fires... they aren't needed to the degree that they actually happen and it would take centuries to recover the habitat that would be lost if fires ran unchecked. And forest fires also contribute to global warming

[dEcade]

I watched the Inconvenient Truth and I have no doubt in my mind that its happening and that the polar ice caps are melting.

[Donna]

Oh no, they're definitely melting... Polar bear habitat is vanishing because not enough water is staying frozen and the massive canadian ice shelves are melting and breaking apart (which is causing them to move like you mentioned).

But that's normal as I see it, the world has been moving and changing since the beginning of time, and IMO I don't feel America/Canada gives 2 hoots about Polar Bears and their enviroment vanishing if they did why are they still hunted? Plenty of websites where you can go book a trip to go kill one.

Last year it was all over the news showing the seal hunters in rapidly melting seas and polar bears drowning (well I only saw one and that was in a documentry could of been filmed in any year) along with seals (the activists had a field day screaming global warming is killing them, they failed to see the men with the high powered rifles on the other side shooting them for skins and trophies) this year it was quite the opposite with the waters so icey they were walking on the ocean and incredibly all the ice/snow was back in place.

And now the oil drillings are going to go ahead so it's not a bit of ice/snow melting that's the problem it's us.

I watched the Inconvenient Truth and I have no doubt in my mind that its happening and that the polar ice caps are melting.

Inconvenient Truth - contained nine scientific "errors, so how on earth can you believe someone that had no clue in the first place?

[Jeepinator]

Donna Polar bears are not legally hunted. They are a protected species I believe so people who kill them are poachers.

[Donna]

Donna Polar bears are not legally hunted. They are a protected species I believe so people who kill them are poachers.

They have no protection that I can see, they are legally hunted by trophy hunters http://www.polarbearhunting.net/

Canada is the only nation in the world that allows polar bear hunting by non-natives and non-citizens, (Polar Bears also live in Alaska, Russia, Greenland, & Norway) Canada sells polar bear hunting licenses to trophy hunters. The main problem with this is that 60% of polar bears reside in Canada.

Besides that:

WHO MAY HUNT POLAR BEAR?
Alaska Natives (Indians, Aleuts, and Eskimos) who reside in Alaska and who dwell on the coast of the north Pacific Ocean or the Arctic Ocean may harvest polar bears for subsistence purposes or the creation and sale of Native articles of handicraft or clothing if the harvest is not wasteful. A Native must be one-fourth degree or more Alaska Indian, Aleut or Eskimo or be enrolled under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act. It is illegal for a person who is not Indian, Aleut, or Eskimo to actively participate in any manner in hunting polar bears.

IS THERE A HARVEST LIMIT FOR POLAR BEARS?
No. Alaska Natives are not limited by Federal Law in the number that can be harvested, providing the harvest is not wasteful. Numbers killed should be limited to what can reasonably be utilized. Polar bears may be harvested any time during the year. Harvest guidelines exist in an agreement between the hunters of the North Slope Borough and the Inuvialuit of Canada.

[dEcade]

Inconvenient Truth - contained nine scientific "errors, so how on earth can you believe someone that had no clue in the first place?

And these errors are?

[Donna]

Inconvenient Truth - contained nine scientific "errors, so how on earth can you believe someone that had no clue in the first place?

And these errors are?

It was all over the news, schools even banned the movie and those that had already shown it were asked to correct the errors so kids wern't being brainwashed on false info.

http://scienceandpub...goreerrors.html shows the full 35 errors 9 being intentional lies or http://scienceandpub...gore-errors.pdf

[AgentMES]

I tend to believe global warming is false...

[Bouzy210]

Inconvenient Truth - contained nine scientific "errors, so how on earth can you believe someone that had no clue in the first place?

And these errors are?

It was all over the news, schools even banned the movie and those that had already shown it were asked to correct the errors so kids wern't being brainwashed on false info.

http://scienceandpub...goreerrors.html shows the full 35 errors 9 being intentional lies or http://scienceandpub...gore-errors.pdf

That site doesn't even look reliable.. its a croppot of graphics and words I could have made up. Here are some other views of the author of that website...

Monckton's views on how the AIDS epidemic should be tackled have been the subject of some controversy. In an article entitled "The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS", written for the January 1987 issue of The American Spectator, he argued that "there is only one way to stop AIDS. That is to screen the entire population regularly and to quarantine all carriers of the disease for life. Every member of the population should be blood-tested every month ... all those found to be infected with the virus, even if only as carriers, should be isolated compulsorily, immediately, and permanently." This would involve isolating between 1.5 and 3 million people in the United States.

or we could spend half the money it would take to do that and put it towards a cure...

Monckton is critical of the theory of anthropogenic causes for global warming and the stated scope of it, which he regards as a controversy catalyzed by "the need of the international left for a new flag to rally round" following the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989.^[16] Although he has acknowledged that global warming is real, he has cast doubt on its provenance and the underlying science in a number of newspaper articles and papers.

you are using evidence from someone who BELIEVES in global warming to say global warming isn't real.

And lastly the author is not a scientist. He used to be a journalist and more recently polotician. At least al gore traveled the world and talked to scientists...

and even if i am wrong and so are millions of other people (I am willing to say there is a possibility I am wrong) then at least we stood for somthing and tired to make the world better. (Even if that just means pushing for alternative fule and cleaning the enviorment.) We didn't just sit there... I mean what if global warming isn't real... what is wrong with trying to clean up the earth and stop our dependence of foriegn energy. At least it's improving something.

and just to make jeepinator happy I did the real profesional thing and used wiki... (So you know it has to be true..!!)

Edited by Bouzy210, 22 June 2008 - 03:35 PM.