20 replies to this topic

[Sennarc]

While everyone is debating about who should or should be subjected to the explicit content contained within San Andreas, I ask you, what about the other explicit materials out there on the store shelves. There are magazines out there that contain explicit material that is easily accessible to men and women of all ages.
Magazines such as Cosmopolitan and Vogue can be found at your local grocery store, airplanes, and even doctors offices. I'm sure that at least everyone here has at least seen the cover of one of these magazines and often times, the content in question, is boldly printed across the front.
So, I ask you, how do magazines of this caliber stay under the radar and games like Grand Theft Auto 3 make such a big impression?

[Faken]

I'll leave this topic open hoping that it remains a mature discussion.

My personal take is that the magazines you mention are not NEARLY as explicit as San Adreas. You're comparing apples to oranges. San Adreas is an EXTREMELY violent game, glorifying murder and mayhem... something I can guarantee you won't find in Cosmo, Vogue or even Maxim. You think it Maxim published an article on raping and murdering women they wouldn't be sued and shut down within 24 hours?

Faken

[Sennarc]

This isn't about the violence of the video game, this is about the sexually explicit content reaching young children. After today I'm kinda jittery about what words I use before more accidents occur. My point, is that this kind of adult content is reaching the hands of young men and women day in and day out without anyone saying a word about it.
Yet, the second you see the sexually explicit material that was in the original Grand Theft Auto game series, people started freaking out. It comes down to who's making the big stink about games such as GTA. The people who like to read Cosmo don't want to have to go to the back of the store with the "other" magazines in order to get their monthy dose of fashion and adult oriented advice.

[Faken]

Sennarc, on Jul 25 2005, 12:37 AM, said:

This isn't about the violence of the video game, this is about the sexually explicit content reaching young children. After today I'm kinda jittery about what words I use before more accidents occur. My point, is that this kind of adult content is reaching the hands of young men and women day in and day out without anyone saying a word about it.
Yet, the second you see the sexually explicit material that was in the original Grand Theft Auto game series, people started freaking out. It comes down to who's making the big stink about games such as GTA. The people who like to read Cosmo don't want to have to go to the back of the store with the "other" magazines in order to get their monthy dose of fashion and adult oriented advice.

You're still comparing the wrong things.... There's a huge difference between the sexuality issues discussed in Cosmo and what's being given to you in San Andreas. There's a world of difference between acting out a sexual act in a video game and an article on how to kiss your boyfriend.

It's a moot point anyhow... the biggest complaints about San Andreas are in regards to the violence, not the sexual content. In fact, all I've EVER heard are complaints about the violence. I think you're looking at the wrong issue.

Faken

[Sennarc]

Okay, so the verdict about San Andreas having to have an "Adult Only" rating have nothing to do with the patch that was released that unlocks the "Adult only" minigames that started this whole new controversy to begin with?

Also, about those magazines. If you have ever actually read those things you would notice that there is world of content in there more than just "how to kiss your boyfriend." They are literally detailed explinations of how to improve your sex life. Not to mention, the columns of the "Sex horror stories" colums that are also included in those magazines. Personally, I don't see a bit of difference between that and the explicit scenes in GTA. sure, you may not be acting them out like in the game, but they are telling you how to act in bed.

[Faken]

Sennarc, on Jul 25 2005, 01:01 AM, said:

Okay, so the verdict about San Andreas having to have an "Adult Only" rating have nothing to do with the patch that was released that unlocks the "Adult only" minigames that started this whole new controversy to begin with?

Also, about those magazines. If you have ever actually read those things you would notice that there is world of content in there more than just "how to kiss your boyfriend." They are literally detailed explinations of how to improve your sex life. Not to mention, the columns of the "Sex horror stories" colums that are also included in those magazines. Personally, I don't see a bit of difference between that and the explicit scenes in GTA. sure, you may not be acting them out like in the game, but they are telling you how to act in bed.

I know nothing about "whole new controversy"... the entire game has been a controversy from Day 1 for the retarded amount of violence in it, but trying to compare it's content to a cosmo mag is laughable. Your comparison makes no sense... why don't you ask if the game is as bad as "Sex with Sue" (famous radio show on sexuality) or anything that has even the foggiest notion of sex in it.

I subscribe to Rolling Stone, Maxim, GQ and a few others... And I read them cover to cover, hence why I think your comparison is so absurd. You're also talking about 2 completely different demographics, which makes your comparison even more invalid. "Let's compare a game that shows 13 year olds that killing is fun to a magazine that shows 20 year olds how to have a more intense orgasm". How that makes sense to you is beyond me.

It's actually spooky that you see no difference.

Faken

[Sennarc]

Okay, you are pointing out magazines that are far different than the magazines I am talking about.

Yes, GTA is excessively violent... That is not the issue I am adressing.

I am talking about the sexual content in specific magazines such as Cosmopolitan and Vogue. Go out to your local wal-mart or where and watch how many 12 year old girls pick up these magazines and how many parents are stopping their kids from reading them.

Your not going to find a stack of vogue and cosmo under your daughters mattress because these things are widely accepted reading materials despite their content. Sure, they may be two different mediums but are you going to argut the point that children are not just as impresionable to books and movies as they are with video games?

The whole issue I'm trying to bring to light is that these magazines are out there, they have been out there for years and years, that include graphic articles that are sexual in nature, and no one is trying to keep these magazines out of the reach of young readers.

Would you be happy knowing that your eleven year old daughter is learning how to perform erotic acts from a magazine at your local gas station, Teen hang-outs, and even in the pews at Church "lock-ins" (personal experience)?

[Faken]

Sennarc, on Jul 25 2005, 01:38 AM, said:

Okay, you are pointing out magazines that are far different than the magazines I am talking about.

Yes, GTA is excessively violent... That is not the issue I am adressing.

I am talking about the sexual content in specific magazines such as Cosmopolitan and Vogue. Go out to your local wal-mart or where and watch how many 12 year old girls pick up these magazines and how many parents are stopping their kids from reading them.

Your not going to find a stack of vogue and cosmo under your daughters mattress because these things are widely accepted reading materials despite their content. Sure, they may be two different mediums but are you going to argut the point that children are not just as impresionable to books and movies as they are with video games?

The whole issue I'm trying to bring to light is that these magazines are out there, they have been out there for years and years, that include graphic articles that are sexual in nature, and no one is trying to keep these magazines out of the reach of young readers.

Would you be happy knowing that your eleven year old daughter is learning how to perform erotic acts from a magazine at your local gas station, Teen hang-outs, and even in the pews at Church "lock-ins" (personal experience)?

As a parent, I'm responsible enough to know what is appropriate for my child at what age. If she wants to read Cosmo when she's 16, she's more than welcome to it. What she reads in Vogue will be quite a bit tamer than what they discuss among friends at school.

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are you going to argut the point that children are not just as impresionable to books and movies as they are with video games?

Umm.. last I checked, 13 year olds can't get in to see R rated movies, and video games are a tad bit more affluent with youth, especially boys, than magazines about fashion.

Either way, it's up the parents to know, and in times where we're surrounded in violence and complete disrespect for anyone and anything, the last thing we need are these idiotic game manufacturers coming up with garbage like San Andreas.

Faken

[Sennarc]

Okay, I'm sure you read the post that I original made, at least i hope you did. (Donna, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to tread slightly over to the darkside again)

Let me ask you, would you want your twelve year old daughter to read a magazine that has a story within its pages about a couple being intimate, then at some point during their intimacy the guy breaks a capilary in his "no no" place causing it to swell up like a big, red balloon?

So your saying that you would allow your child to learn about "the birds and the bees" from a fashion pop culture magazine that strives to tell you "50 new ways to "excite" your man" ?

Okay, so it's okay for girls to read sexually explicit materials in a magazine, but not okay for them to see something sexually explicit in a movie or on a video game?

[sirus_sama]

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As a parent, I'm responsible enough to know what is appropriate for my child at what age.

You are correct. Parents are responsible for the things their children view. San Andreas has a rating stating that it is violent and has sexual themes. Thusly, it is rated M for mature. This means that only people of the age of 17+ can purchase it. Now, I ask you how these children are getting this game. Well, someone 17 or older is buying it for them. That must mean that either a parent is buying it for them or an older family member/ friend. The issue should not be with the company (who by the way doesn't even rate it) but, the parents who see this rating and completely ignore it. Then, they don't even check the game themselves to see if it is or is not suitable by their own standards. Then, one day they walk in and see their child picking up a girl. The parents see then that they made a mistake and don't even want to own up to their own mistake. The mini-game in question here is only on the pc version. It is also only accessible by a patch created by an outside party, not the company itself. As for the violence in the game, it is rated accordingly and the parents need to own up to their inability to check out the game before hand. As for Sennac's argument of the content in other mediums, the content in magazines mentioned may not be as strong of an influence on our youth but, the suggestion is still there. You want a better idea of a magazine that presents bad material available to any one with money. There is a magazine called "EasyRiders" with pictures of women without clothing. It has to start somewhere. The programs on TV are just as bad. We tell our infants not to hit but, we show them bugs bunny. So, if you want to fight something for bad content why not attack something easily accessible to our youth?

[Sennarc]

Well, someone gets what I'm trying to say.

GTA isn't the only one getting heat at the moment. Thomson is now attacking SIMS 2
Gamespot article...

[Jamie Huskisson]

thinking of it that way.. why not ban the internet? its easy enough to access porn isn't it? images of things that are too wrong to discuss.. read things that kids shouldn't read... etc.

its all about the parents and their maintanence/control over what the kid does

[Sennarc]

Yes, it is.

It's just the sheer hypocrisy of the whole situation. It's like parents and politicians are saying "it's okay to read about explicit things but it's not okay to look at anything explicit?"

How do the magazine publishers slip by unscathed while the game developers take a beating? It just dosen't make sense.

[Faken]

The fact that some people don't see the difference between San Andreas and a cosmo mag or cartoons is hilarious. I'm done this discussion because clearly you're too set on an absurd and completely invalid comparison that makes as much sense as saying driving a compact car and flying a space shuttle is the same thing.

The first thing you need to do is get over the sexuality point of San Andreas... the sexual content of the game makes up about 1% of the complaints against it. Try googling complaint lists on the game and see for yourself... maybe then you'll understand why your comparison is so ridiculous.

As a parent I can control what's in my house and what my daughter has within it... but gaming companies should also have the brains and respect to not glorify violence and murder, auto theft and other actions that get people killed on the most powerful medium exposed to youth in the developed world. You won't find that in Cosmo magazine that's for damn sure.

Anyhow, done with this discussion... it's reached that level of idiocy where minds aren't even prepared to accept anything else beyond their noses.

Faken

[Faken]

Sennarc, on Jul 25 2005, 06:57 PM, said:

How do the magazine publishers slip by unscathed while the game developers take a beating? It just dosen't make sense.

By the way, you should seriously do some research before you continue yammering about magazines being unscathed. Magazines, radio shows, and TV medium have been shut down, cancelled, seized, and/or heavily fined for billions for unethical programming or print. Get off your soap box and look up your figures before going on baseless rants.

Faken

[Sennarc]

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Anyhow, done with this discussion... it's reached that level of idiocy where minds aren't even prepared to accept anything else beyond their noses.

A debate no longer becomes a debate when parties involved refuse to expand their minds around what the other party is trying to communicate. You have stated nothing in defense of your view other than the concept is rediculous. Before you enter a debate, simple rebuttles that contain no real subject matter pertaining to the debate in question should be left aside becuase it does not solve anything. I really think who is on what "soapbox" should be more thuroughly examined.

[Faken]

Sennarc, on Jul 25 2005, 09:17 PM, said:

I really think who is on what "soapbox" should be more thuroughly examined.

Then I suggest you find the closest mirror asap.

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You have stated nothing in defense of your view

So you missed that whole thing I posted about pretty much every known media has paid billions and faced legal ramifications completely destroying your lame "debate" that only video game companies take heat. Great job.

Other than that, there's no way to defend against someone who justifies everything by ignoring plain logic. Sorry I'm not into schoolyard debates.

Faken

[Blitz]

sirus_sama, on Jul 25 2005, 10:21 PM, said:

Quote

As a parent, I'm responsible enough to know what is appropriate for my child at what age.

You are correct. Parents are responsible for the things their children view. San Andreas has a rating stating that it is violent and has sexual themes. Thusly, it is rated M for mature. This means that only people of the age of 17+ can purchase it. Now, I ask you how these children are getting this game. Well, someone 17 or older is buying it for them. That must mean that either a parent is buying it for them or an older family member/ friend. The issue should not be with the company (who by the way doesn't even rate it) but, the parents who see this rating and completely ignore it. Then, they don't even check the game themselves to see if it is or is not suitable by their own standards. Then, one day they walk in and see their child picking up a girl. The parents see then that they made a mistake and don't even want to own up to their own mistake. The mini-game in question here is only on the pc version. It is also only accessible by a patch created by an outside party, not the company itself. As for the violence in the game, it is rated accordingly and the parents need to own up to their inability to check out the game before hand. As for Sennac's argument of the content in other mediums, the content in magazines mentioned may not be as strong of an influence on our youth but, the suggestion is still there. You want a better idea of a magazine that presents bad material available to any one with money. There is a magazine called "EasyRiders" with pictures of women without clothing. It has to start somewhere. The programs on TV are just as bad. We tell our infants not to hit but, we show them bugs bunny. So, if you want to fight something for bad content why not attack something easily accessible to our youth?

Well, I personally give kids enough credit to know that Bugs Bunny is obviously totally fake. I grew up playing Monster Bash. I'm not out fighting Dracula and dragons. I also played Commander Keen, and I'm not jumping on a pogo stick while shooting a ray gun. Mostly because it's so obviously not real. The issue with San Andreas is mostly the realistic violence (besides the cheats, which is what most do anyways), it's just that the hidden game threw it over the top. But the sexuality wasn't really the issue. Also, the reason it was made AO was because it was part of the original game. It's not only available on the PC game, it's also available on the PS2 thanks to a code with the Action Replay card.

And as for the magazine issue, I don't see that much of an issue. If the parent thinks a child is at a reasonable age, there isn't a problem. When at a store I don't see flocks of teenagers buying those magazines. I don't.

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So your saying that you would allow your child to learn about "the birds and the bees" from a fashion pop culture magazine that strives to tell you "50 new ways to "excite" your man" ?

Somehow I doubt that a kid will be learning that for the first time after picking a magazine. As Faken said, kids will discuss this anyways most likely.

[sirus_sama]

It's always great when someone who is suppose to be a mature adult acts like a juvenile. Instead of trying to understand our point you insult us. It is great when a man with a mid-life crisis has to resort to high school tactics. You obviously do not have the faintest understanding of psychology and the human mind. Also, I do enjoy being called an idiot by someone who can't even type with proper grammar. How do you suppose that children learn how to survive in today's society? They use the mediums of television and magazines. these things that reflect the way our society is run. So, tell me do you think a 12 year old should learn sexual activities from a magazine? You can't say that they don't because those magazines are full of such articles. Do you look through those magazines before your daughter does? Do you allow her to watch Mtv? Mtv which has strong sexual content for tv. Why do kids smoke? They think it's cool. How do they come to that conclusion? The see these figures they look up to in movies doing it. So, your tell me kids can't learn from what they read? You have not presented a strong argument against us. All you are doing is belittling our intelligence with insults. how respectable is that?

[Faken]

sirus_sama, on Jul 25 2005, 11:55 PM, said:

It's always great when someone who is suppose to be a mature adult acts like a juvenile. Instead of trying to understand our point you insult us. It is great when a man with a mid-life crisis has to resort to high school tactics. You obviously do not have the faintest understanding of psychology and the human mind. Also, I do enjoy being called an idiot by someone who can't even type with proper grammar. How do you suppose that children learn how to survive in today's society? They use the mediums of television and magazines. these things that reflect the way our society is run. So, tell me do you think a 12 year old should learn sexual activities from a magazine? You can't say that they don't because those magazines are full of such articles. Do you look through those magazines before your daughter does? Do you allow her to watch Mtv? Mtv which has strong sexual content for tv. Why do kids smoke? They think it's cool. How do they come to that conclusion? The see these figures they look up to in movies doing it. So, your tell me kids can't learn from what they read? You have not presented a strong argument against us. All you are doing is belittling our intelligence with insults. how respectable is that?

No idea who you're talking to, but spare us the drama.

Faken